Such an interesting topic! I have been struggling with the word nature recently because surely everything is nature! I mean not plastic I suppose. But I see myself as entwined with the world around me, living in rhythm with the earth, in a community of beings that aren’t just human. For example, I noticed some cobwebs in my bathroom and the other day I ‘cleaned’ them away…then this morning I was in the shower and I noticed a huge spider sitting on a freshly woven web in the same place…and I thought, I have no right to clean away his home. (I admit I do have a tendency to gender animals and plants and I try and catch myself doing it). Going back to the mental health thing though - I do think a sense of connectedness to a bigger ecosystem is soooo beneficial! Whenever I feel lonely, I go and talk to the frogs and fish in my pond and remember that I’m not alone.
Yes - 'nature' is such a strange term. I have heard that there are some languages where it just doesn't exist because it's almost meaningless. Plastic is made from long dead and compressed sea creatures...but it was never meant to be dug up and made into things. I have the same feelings about the spiders in our house!! And yes, I didn't mean to belittle the mental health aspect - in fact, I think our uprootedness from the web of life (and our communities) is actually the cause of many of our mental health crises....
This is important and thought provoking, thank you. It's stirring up thoughts in me:
-the French word for dragonfly is similar, libellule, and it was one of my favourite words as a child! People think 'dragon! Yikes, scary!' (and yes, dragonflies are pretty scary if you are a bee or a fly-they are very formidable hunters) but libellule is ethereal and magical...
-I love the old folk names for plants and animals. I'm not sure if they count as 'animate words' though because a lot of the names might refer to more human things like folk tales about witches, fairies, angels or the Devil, or named after a specific person-there are a lot of plants named Jack, for example-or references to sex and bodily functions! But they seem a lot more alive and playful in that sense.
-I kind of disagree that 'star goddesses' can't be elders and 'hags', they absolutely can! There are some very ancient stars out there, the red giants and so on, and the ones that passed into supernovas and nebulas made the dust that made our planet and us, ultimately. They can be ragged and stormy and full of wisdom...
-I discussed this in RYS but I do wonder a lot about how connecting with land would work for those of migrant backgrounds, or those who don't have that deep root to a place going back generations, be it a particular region or a very local area, or even a country or group. Would it be 'right' for someone to connect with the Gaelic/Celtic/Britonic (?) words if they are of the backgrounds of those who dominated, such as Anglo Saxon? Is it more about where you are established rather than blood/DNA? (That question is obviously one of the most contentious ones!)
-it makes me wonder if we need to reinvent our language altogether to make it more animate or relational, in a way that doesn't appropriate. I agree that 'connection' can come across as vague, because yes, connection can be deep but it can also be a passing link, one that can be broken, but that's not what we want with nature. I like the idea of relating/relationship, or nature immersion, something that describes how innate it is to us and how it's almost like our life support, and like the mycelial network. Maybe this is something that goes beyond language with words and is more something you feel deeply that cannot be described.
Thank you for all your reflections, especially on the star goddesses! I love how you always help me see things a different way. And I agree on the complexities of what it means to be 'native' to place...something for a longer, nuanced discussion I feel. I am thinking of a speaker who may be able to help us with that in RYS for next year.
And, yes, about new words. I remember Robin Wall Kimmerer talking about a non-gendered pronouns for animals "khi"...
Ooh, that sounds intriguing (the speaker for next year)!
I didn't specify but actually I wasn't just thinking of new words or phrases etc (and brand new words can sometimes be difficult to pick up in common parlance, unless they become 'trendy', and the whole concept of trends is a whole other thing, often something I can find hard to understand or pick up!), but new approaches? or different approaches? For example Robin Wall Kimmerer, who I also absolutely admire, talks about offering the spirits of the plants an offering of tobacco, but to us in the UK that wouldn't be appropriate as it's something of her culture, not ours. How could we also offer our gratitude? And how do we know whether we've done it 'right', such as, has that gratitude been 'accepted', if we have any way of knowing?
Oh I love these ideas. Yes, there is so much that we have to re-learn. I don't think there's necessarily ONE right way to do it (but there are many clear ways now NOT to do it). This is where I wish we had our elders...
I often mourn all the wisdom lost thanks to the tides of history. But I do wonder if some wisdom remains, but hidden, encoded, in things like folk tales, songs, engravings on stones etc.
Also, this makes me think that one day, barring illness or unfortunate circumstances, WE will become the elders. So if the elders are no longer with us now, we are the elders of the future. And it starts now...
I'm reading Braiding Sweetgrass at the moment, too, and every chapter is giving me pause to think and savour her words. I, too, loved the chapter about naming in the natural world using verbs and how it brings 'things' to life. So beautiful. So wonderful to hear that there are words in other languages, too, that have the same animacy. Must find out more about this! If only we could see and celebrate our entwinement with nature with language that is filled with life and belonging. Thank you, Agnes, I am so glad to have found you and We Are Stardust.
It's such a beautiful book isn't it? I keep returning to it over and over. Yes - I am new to animate languages too and am looking forward to learning more. So glad to have found you too Cate! Here's to working together to re-animate our worlds.
Loved this and I'm still processing 'connection' with nature and what that means, and what a process of 'disconnecting' would look like/does look like. If we connect, rather than see ourselves as nature, then we must engage in a process of disconnecting. I haven't got much further than pondering on that. Your words are food for thought, thank you!
Yes...there is a group at the University of Derby researching nature connection which perhaps I should have brought into this episode. They define it as follows: "Nature connectedness is a measurable psychological construct that moves beyond contact with nature to an individual's sense of their relationship with the natural world." So basically a relationship. But I have also heard Rowen White talk about "our perceived disconnection to the earth" which I thought was a very insightful way of phrasing it. Perhaps the 'connection' bit is when we realise how deeply entwined we are and always have been?
Thank you Siân. I can imagine learning Welsh in a classroom environment must be so hard and that the etymology is what brings it alive - and how exciting watching the starlings go after the bird of prey! Glad to have you as part of this conversation/tapestry/dance.
Such an interesting topic! I have been struggling with the word nature recently because surely everything is nature! I mean not plastic I suppose. But I see myself as entwined with the world around me, living in rhythm with the earth, in a community of beings that aren’t just human. For example, I noticed some cobwebs in my bathroom and the other day I ‘cleaned’ them away…then this morning I was in the shower and I noticed a huge spider sitting on a freshly woven web in the same place…and I thought, I have no right to clean away his home. (I admit I do have a tendency to gender animals and plants and I try and catch myself doing it). Going back to the mental health thing though - I do think a sense of connectedness to a bigger ecosystem is soooo beneficial! Whenever I feel lonely, I go and talk to the frogs and fish in my pond and remember that I’m not alone.
Yes - 'nature' is such a strange term. I have heard that there are some languages where it just doesn't exist because it's almost meaningless. Plastic is made from long dead and compressed sea creatures...but it was never meant to be dug up and made into things. I have the same feelings about the spiders in our house!! And yes, I didn't mean to belittle the mental health aspect - in fact, I think our uprootedness from the web of life (and our communities) is actually the cause of many of our mental health crises....
This is important and thought provoking, thank you. It's stirring up thoughts in me:
-the French word for dragonfly is similar, libellule, and it was one of my favourite words as a child! People think 'dragon! Yikes, scary!' (and yes, dragonflies are pretty scary if you are a bee or a fly-they are very formidable hunters) but libellule is ethereal and magical...
-I love the old folk names for plants and animals. I'm not sure if they count as 'animate words' though because a lot of the names might refer to more human things like folk tales about witches, fairies, angels or the Devil, or named after a specific person-there are a lot of plants named Jack, for example-or references to sex and bodily functions! But they seem a lot more alive and playful in that sense.
-I kind of disagree that 'star goddesses' can't be elders and 'hags', they absolutely can! There are some very ancient stars out there, the red giants and so on, and the ones that passed into supernovas and nebulas made the dust that made our planet and us, ultimately. They can be ragged and stormy and full of wisdom...
-I discussed this in RYS but I do wonder a lot about how connecting with land would work for those of migrant backgrounds, or those who don't have that deep root to a place going back generations, be it a particular region or a very local area, or even a country or group. Would it be 'right' for someone to connect with the Gaelic/Celtic/Britonic (?) words if they are of the backgrounds of those who dominated, such as Anglo Saxon? Is it more about where you are established rather than blood/DNA? (That question is obviously one of the most contentious ones!)
-it makes me wonder if we need to reinvent our language altogether to make it more animate or relational, in a way that doesn't appropriate. I agree that 'connection' can come across as vague, because yes, connection can be deep but it can also be a passing link, one that can be broken, but that's not what we want with nature. I like the idea of relating/relationship, or nature immersion, something that describes how innate it is to us and how it's almost like our life support, and like the mycelial network. Maybe this is something that goes beyond language with words and is more something you feel deeply that cannot be described.
Thank you for all your reflections, especially on the star goddesses! I love how you always help me see things a different way. And I agree on the complexities of what it means to be 'native' to place...something for a longer, nuanced discussion I feel. I am thinking of a speaker who may be able to help us with that in RYS for next year.
And, yes, about new words. I remember Robin Wall Kimmerer talking about a non-gendered pronouns for animals "khi"...
Ooh, that sounds intriguing (the speaker for next year)!
I didn't specify but actually I wasn't just thinking of new words or phrases etc (and brand new words can sometimes be difficult to pick up in common parlance, unless they become 'trendy', and the whole concept of trends is a whole other thing, often something I can find hard to understand or pick up!), but new approaches? or different approaches? For example Robin Wall Kimmerer, who I also absolutely admire, talks about offering the spirits of the plants an offering of tobacco, but to us in the UK that wouldn't be appropriate as it's something of her culture, not ours. How could we also offer our gratitude? And how do we know whether we've done it 'right', such as, has that gratitude been 'accepted', if we have any way of knowing?
Oh I love these ideas. Yes, there is so much that we have to re-learn. I don't think there's necessarily ONE right way to do it (but there are many clear ways now NOT to do it). This is where I wish we had our elders...
I often mourn all the wisdom lost thanks to the tides of history. But I do wonder if some wisdom remains, but hidden, encoded, in things like folk tales, songs, engravings on stones etc.
Also, this makes me think that one day, barring illness or unfortunate circumstances, WE will become the elders. So if the elders are no longer with us now, we are the elders of the future. And it starts now...
I'm reading Braiding Sweetgrass at the moment, too, and every chapter is giving me pause to think and savour her words. I, too, loved the chapter about naming in the natural world using verbs and how it brings 'things' to life. So beautiful. So wonderful to hear that there are words in other languages, too, that have the same animacy. Must find out more about this! If only we could see and celebrate our entwinement with nature with language that is filled with life and belonging. Thank you, Agnes, I am so glad to have found you and We Are Stardust.
It's such a beautiful book isn't it? I keep returning to it over and over. Yes - I am new to animate languages too and am looking forward to learning more. So glad to have found you too Cate! Here's to working together to re-animate our worlds.
Loved this and I'm still processing 'connection' with nature and what that means, and what a process of 'disconnecting' would look like/does look like. If we connect, rather than see ourselves as nature, then we must engage in a process of disconnecting. I haven't got much further than pondering on that. Your words are food for thought, thank you!
Yes...there is a group at the University of Derby researching nature connection which perhaps I should have brought into this episode. They define it as follows: "Nature connectedness is a measurable psychological construct that moves beyond contact with nature to an individual's sense of their relationship with the natural world." So basically a relationship. But I have also heard Rowen White talk about "our perceived disconnection to the earth" which I thought was a very insightful way of phrasing it. Perhaps the 'connection' bit is when we realise how deeply entwined we are and always have been?
Thanks I check that out and Rowan White’s thoughts on “disconnection.
Here is the link to Rowen’s spoken word ‘Together We Rise ‘. It is utterly beautiful. https://m.soundcloud.com/rowen-white/together-we-rise
Thank you Siân. I can imagine learning Welsh in a classroom environment must be so hard and that the etymology is what brings it alive - and how exciting watching the starlings go after the bird of prey! Glad to have you as part of this conversation/tapestry/dance.